Fighting!

[Rich]

Deffinatly, the majority of people who will say they didn't enjoy watching the bench clearence last night will be lying.

[rickmayallfan]

i think it was better for it. i do think payette should of tried fighting trumbley or longstaff as they were more pesky than ferone seemed to be. i don't see why people dislike fighting in hockey, as they know what the sport was like as when you ask someone bout ice hockey one of the main things people say is fighting. if they don't like it find another sport where fighting won't concern them as most people know hockey is a rough game so its beyond me why people go then start whinging bout fights. it's like going to boxing and moaning people are being punched.

Had to edit it a little bit, because the one fullstop in this post was a bit lonely without any other punctuation marks about....

[blue3556]

Last nights game was the first one where I have seen a proper fight and bench clearance. I think it made the game more exciting to watch.

I really don't think waco knows what he is talking about. He seems to have a major problem with payette though.

My advice to him is if you don't like seeing fights, don't go to the ice hockey.

[Bulin Wall]

Last night's match was better for the fights because they cleared the tension that had been building during the game.

I would rather see fighting such as there was last night than see someone be the victim of a cynical challenge that may cause a severe injury.

[Claret & Blue Army]

Ruutu15 said:

I would rather see fighting such as there was last night than see someone be the victim of a cynical challenge that may cause a severe injury.

Wonder whom you're referring to here?

[Dave17]

What intrigued me was the way the other fighting stopped when Andre and Ferone squared up. Also how they calmly skated to centre ice before starting.

[Carpo]

King said:

Whoa! Carpo's a bloke!

Yep.

Look out for a #98 Carpo Phoenix shirt, and that's me.

In any case.

I stand by what i said. I went and got a beer when the bench clearence was on, much to the annoyence of the bar staff.

"Organised" Fighting has no place in hockey, and that's what we see in the EIHL. If you think these fights that your seeing are because two players genuinaly dislike each other, or it's sticking up for a team mate, then you are sadly mistaken.

The vast vast majority of fights in UK Hockey is simply fighting for fighting sake. If you want to see two blokes punch each other, go watch boxing.

Personally i don't mind an occasional fight where an enforcer is genually protecting his players, but this organised fighting has to stop IMO.

It's bad for the game, and does nothing to promote the image of the game, and just plays straight into the hands of people that say that hockey is no more than excuse for a brawl.

Before anyone comes back at me with the 'bums on seats' argument, your right IN THE SHORT TERM fighting can increase the number of fans you get through the door.

In the long term the practise is self-defeating because the product of the game suffers, the quality of the hockey suffers, and ultimatly that results in less points on the league table, and that is what the fans fundamentally care about more not how many fights payette has won.

Carpo off HIS soapbox... ;D

[Dave]

Sorry for thinking your post was quite feminine.

I respect your argument, however it is very rare that their are organised fights, especially here in the UK if any. In North American Minor leagues like the QSPHL, their maybe as that league is well known for its hard men and the fights.
I do appreciate that often the reasons for fighting aren't all that right. For example often hardmen like to fight each other just to increase their reputations, as to beat another tough guy enhances their reputations. As for protecting team mates, well Ferone and Payette went during the bench clearance so that no other players from their team would have to deal with the hard man of each team, so it was hard man -v- hard man instead of Ferone some how ending up with Cowley or someone. Also so that Payette wouldn't have someone like Wallace so in taking the hard man from each team they were protecting their team mates. In Bracknell Payette was protecting Adam Calder.
IMO the most common reason for fighting is protecting team mates. However players often do go out looking for fights, such as Cornish (LON), he has fought Darling/Ewasko two very important players to their respective, both first liners and Cornish is a third liner, therefore he is taking out for 2+2 or even the rest of the game (after a second bout) a far more important player to SHE/BAS than he is to London. So fighting is VERY often tactical. Also London have a very physical roster, due to the style of their rink, the ice is small and means that at home they can physically dominate/bully. This enables them to intimidate.
A team without atleast one decent scrapper hasn't won honours in the UK since the Storm 10 years ago!
Fighting is not necessarily a great thing for the sport, but it adds to entertainment, you can use fighting as a way of tactical know-how.

IMO organised fighting VERY rarely occurs in UK hockey and fighting in general is not really hurting the sport. It is part of the sport.

[Carpo]

Some good points in there...

I don't have a problem with enforcers. I think they are a needed part of the game.

In fact going back to Payette, i personally belive that he's far far more useful to the blaze delivering checks onto players because it's something he does very effectivally ;D

People have been talking on here for the last couple of days about the 'gentlemanly' aspect of hockey fighting... That is exactly what i mean by organised fights. There's nothing that special about seeing two guys fight when they ask it's other if they want to, it's just a bit sad really... (and lets be honest, Payette is not the best fighter in the EIHL by a long way...)

The tactics of fighting is not something i'm going to talk about here becasue it's already a well documented subject, and you are right that you can use a fight to try and change the direction of a game...

But overall i stand by what i said. An organised fighting culture in hockey will ultimatly destroy the game.

Ask yourself this question. Why are more europeans than ever before (virtually none of which are enforcers) being drafted into the NHL? The game is evolving to a more skill based instead of having 15 meatheads on each team.

Final Point: Personally i think enforcers are far more effective when they keep their gloves on, and protect there players by landing checks on the opposition. You can intimidate a team without fighting.

[naffer]

Final Point: Personally i think enforcers are far more effective when they keep their gloves on, and protect there players by landing checks on the opposition. You can intimidate a team without fighting.


Very good point Carpo bit like a nuclear deterrent really i would much rather see Dan Deke the pads off a netty than two meatballs as you say slug it out for no apparent reason.

[Carpo]

OFFTOPIC: And what a fantastic goal it was as well. One of the best seen at the skydome IMO. A shame that it got forgotten about....

[GazzatheDevil]

organised fighting is happening more and more this year, Payette and ewasko after 4 seconds anyone?

Maxwell desperatly trying to settle old scores against the Devils?

a few goons this year are trying to stamp their authority on games unnessicerly maybe they should all take a leaf out of angelstads book eh?

[Dave]

Carpo: You can intimidate a team without fighting.

Well I do agree, but these guys intimidate players because of their reputations for example Anglestad has yet to drop um' in the UK, but his prescense is enough to make players calm down their physical game. Why is this, because his reputation and from what everyone has seen on vid's etc he is the toughest guy in the EIHL by a mile. He has this reputation by dropping his gloves, throughout his career and usually coming out of the brawl the victor.

Define 'organised fighting'- Pre-organised? They are not saying to e/o before the game lets have a scrap. The Ewasko/Payette fight. Fair enough he wasn't protecting his team mates, although for the first 2+2 minutes of the game the rest of our roster didn't have to much to worry about physically. Just I think these guys knew that e/o was the tough guy from their respective team and went for it. They wanted to show what they could do, show off to their bench! I admit that was a bit idiotic.

I don't see how its hurting the game though as its part of the game, people asssociate hockey with fighting but why's that such a bad thing. Unless we want to expand ice hockey's target audience. At the end of the day IMO hockey fights are very popular, the cheering going on during fight's is immense. They are entertaining whats the problem. I for one don't want to see a roster full of skilled players that don't want to drop the gloves even when pushed. I like to see sexy hockey as much as the next guy, but I also like to see a good old skool hockey fight.

In the words of Paul Thompson- 'I enjoyed Sunday's game, it was good old school hockey.'
If its good enough for Thommo its good enough for daveyboy!

[Carpo]

davey said:

I don't see how its hurting the game though as its part of the game, people asssociate hockey with fighting but why's that such a bad thing. Unless we want to expand ice hockey's target audience.

Well my friend, i don't see a point in adding to this thread as you've answered your own question!

Next time you complain about hockey not being on the TV, or not enough hockey in the national press, think back to this thread.

[Claret & Blue Army]

A point specifically relating to the the fracas on Sunday is - What were the Vipers playing at? At 6-0 down they had very little chance of recovery even by "getting the better" of a fight(s)
The natural intimidation of an enforcer has its place as look at the freedom Ashley & co have had this year compared to previous seasons.

Have to say the usually the most hurt thing in any of the fights we see in our league is PRIDE